Thy Noisy Neighbor
April 5, 2010 by Kathy McManus
The meaning of ‘love thy neighbor’ was challenged in court recently, when a Phoenix judge was asked to decide between the rights of two neighbors: a church that played recorded bells through a loudspeaker 13 times a day, and annoyed residents who wanted quiet.
According to The Arizona Republic, The Cathedral of Christ the King was cited last year for violating a Phoenix “nuisance and noise” ordinance and its bishop given a 10-day suspended jail sentence after neighbors complained about the bells chiming hourly from 8AM to 8PM, seven days a week.
In response, the church sued the city, claiming the noise ordinance was not only unconstitutional but written so that it was “impossible for a person to know if a noise he is making is against the law.”
A federal judge ruled that the church’s “interests of free speech and religious expression” outweighed the arguments of the neighbors. Readers of the Republic pondered the nuances of noise. “What about all the folks riding their loud Harleys and pickup trucks up and down the street all day and night?” asked one. “How’s that any different?”
There’s “a big difference between legal (ringing bells) and moral (respecting your neighbors and not annoying them),” wrote another.
Tell us what you think: Should one kind of “noise” be more protected than another? Do churches have an extra responsibility to be sensitive to their neighbors—or the other way around?
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147 Comments
What do you think? Leave a comment
May 3, 2010 by ann p wilson
i'm 60 years old, and in my experience, when a person is doing anything at all that brings complaints, and that persons maintains the offense, that person is doing so for a reason that is not good. church bells are for the sunday morning call to worship, weddings, funerals, and other special services. that he is using the bells in a "non-standard" way means that he has a "non-standard" personal problem, and it also means that he craves power and recognition. he wants to be seen. he wants to be heard. he is calling attention to himself. he wants to be discovered. he wants to be famous. he thinks he should be "up there" with the well knowns of the church world.
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May 5, 2010 by tenitta epps
what about the children studying at school. does it not affect their concentration? what about business telephone conversations? Just peace in general. Did the minister not practice what he preached? love thy neighbor. do unto others as you would have them do unto you? the previous gentleman was correct in my opinion. the bells are for special times. not hourly badgering. maybe the marching band should pick a week to play (with permission of course) during his sleeping hours for their practice time for the big game! just kidding.
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May 7, 2010 by Maryssa
What the hell do you mean our kids needs less education. Sorry but it is true.
January 9, 2011 by Nick in NC
Maybe that band should get a permit and play during his sermon.
or his neighbor play their alarm clock at full blast at 4am for the guy to hear.
May 14, 2010 by Pattie
I totally agree with your summation.
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May 15, 2010 by David
"Amen brother!"
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June 22, 2010 by lory
I would like to know if the neighbor who has complaints about the Church bell owns a leaf blower or pays a lawn service who blows on a regular basis??? TAlk about NOISE POLLUTION--and the unsanitary dust and debris that is airborne = respitory illness for everyone living around the blowhard.
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August 8, 2010 by rd
yes, landscapers are a pain in the butt. give those guys a rake like the okd days.
August 9, 2010 by bev
Spoken like a person who can't afford a landscaper.
July 3, 2010 by Susan
I totally agree with Ann P. This is a matter of RESPECT or lack there of by the church and the priest. And, it is also all about power.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/whats_bugging_you&id=7334604
After the story the Catholic church served me with a legal action. They just want power and to shut you up. I won. But it wasn't easy and it is a tough fight when your fighting the most powerful organization on the planet without an attorney. Peace and quiet is worth fighting for. I hope the City of Phoenix takes the case all the way to the supreme court, where it has already been tried and peace and quiet was won out. No one or organization is above the law. This has got to be made clear!!. People have the right to peace and quiet.
This issue has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with people's right to peace and quiet.
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January 9, 2011 by Nick
As far as the leaf blower, they are a nusiance. I do landscaping and I don't use them. They are noisy, they pollute horrible, waste gas (see $3 gallon), all they do is blow the dirt and leaves to someone else's yard or into the street and storm drains- which clog and make more problems. Additionally, the blower blows the forming soil away.
Rake makes a nice lawn, leaving the smaller parts behind which makes better soil and makes nice muscles.
The noise part is just another issue too. Car radios (boom boom boom). There are several methods of noise pollution.
It really comes down to respect for others, which lots of people are seriously lacking.
April 14, 2011 by kim harned
You are affable with your right to uphold the opinion and it is so true...the right for others to have and maintain some semblance of peace and quiet is fundamental and necessary...and presently,I am not a happy camper for my unruly and obnoxiously disrespecting neighbours whom have no moral compass and do not abide by common-courtesy factor..this is in upstate NY in Cairo and it is run amuck as far as any timely,fashionable assist even from law officers whom are accorded badge with uniform and weapon to protect and serve community,and recently called peace officers when they do not uphold the peace nor serve their community members as ought when told to do so:landlord also has gotten tired of noise but only tells to abide by term of agreement/lease and gets a day of adherence followed by days of excess acts that are unreasonable on all counts but a bell is not continually as unruly noises@all hrs of nighe when person needs sleep..good thing an epileptic,prone to grand mals,isn't atop unreasonable noises continuously,as they would be thrust into having a seizure as a result of loss of sleep,loud noises that startle the mind and body,and other health hazards result.But your opinion matters and I am with you.Just like the right to have life,liberty and pursuit of happiness so should the right to one's prescience of mind and sanctity of body...even in one's own domicile.
July 3, 2010 by Annette Roennow
No - one type of noise should not be protected. If the noise you make offends anyone, the noise must be stopped as it is Disturbing the Peace. It is against the law.
Maybe we should start bombarding manufacturers of any noise making machinery to understand that we don't want to disturb our neighbors so PLEASE do something about making machinery QUIET.
As well as complain as often as we can to churches making unnecessary bell chiming.
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September 10, 2010 by yosh
yea i totally agree cause a crying baby at restaurant should be stopped right away and the mother should be persecuted on the spot matter of fact we should just start throwing people in jail for making noises that offend people like farting
April 16, 2011 by Warren Pugh
Perhaps being hard of hearing leaves me less sympathetic and amused. If you do not like noise then move out of town.. Noise is increasing everywhere. I can imagine some fool complaining about the noise of a tornado as sit sweeps them away. Someone mentioned kids in school being disturbed by noise. Where yuh been? They are glued to cellphones, mp3s, ipods and a currently new device that gives them anything but quiet, and please note their grades are declining while the cost/pupil is on the rise. In recent years and weeks kids walking RR tracks have been killed deafened by you know what. You have your rights you know. Why were the church bells not grandfathered? Mighty nice of someone to bring the law into the fray. Whats that got to do with anything? Exploding guns and non-emergency sirens are not only noisy but startling. Besides our constitution is a mess. Its fate is determined by who appointed its judges, rather than by its content. In 2011 the law is most intrusive. Perhaps the real problem is that since the 60s we have unlearned the difference between noise and music. Define noise and perhaps the whiners will receive some sympathy. Until then bells are music, and I'll take music over noise anytime especially when kids from some nearby school are playing in a spring concert or private lesson spring recitals. In the meantime take a drive into the country and enjoy the labors of one of the thousands of greenhouse operations. Beautiful sights like that cannot possibly offed your senses.
July 15, 2010 by Muteness
Just now and I mean literally since I'm at work and my two friends stopped by to tell me. The building responsible for noisy neighbours has just forced my friend to rip the basketball hoop out his front yard from a noise complaint that never was given a warning to. This lady who finds every little thing distracting decided to call since we like to be social and active and play basketball on his private hoop. She walks out one day and say "curfew is at 10:00 for you guys," it most certainly isn't. It's at 12:00 a.m. - 6:00 a.m. The no-noise time is from 10-7 I believe, way to give a warning that isn't even correct. Now we lose the hoop and I'm gettin ready to file against her.
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August 8, 2010 by rd
So true, sounds like my neighbor.
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September 21, 2010 by Garry
He got his wish; but some times you have to be careful about what you wish for, you just might get it. In this case, I think this bell ringer is turning people away from God; instead of to him. Do you know what denomination this church is?
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September 30, 2010 by Cece
I love this reply. So true! So true!
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December 13, 2010 by chrystal
I am in total agreement, if it disturbs the peace of another in your building, and if it says in your lease agreement that you shall maintain a quiet peaceful environment, then the noisy neighbor allowing their children to play ball in the house is rude and disruptive. My children have timed math lessons and reading assignments for their school as homework, and one minute with noise dirupting them makes it hard for them to get anything accomplished!
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January 7, 2011 by Luie
Chrystal..I agree with you 100% im having the same problem at my place , the neighbors son plays basketball inside the apartment making it very difficult for me to get rest, what makes matters worst is that I work during the night and I rest in the afternoons and its just about the time his son gets out of school..nightmare, I asked the neighbor to please have consideration and keep the noise down and his response was."I pay rent here" we argued and he called the cops on me and now im waiting for a court letter because he filed a complaint against me..
February 1, 2012 by John PA
I live in a beautiful small Western Pennsylvania town. Life here is made miserable by the never ending noise of a coal prepping plant. The trains, conveyor belts, and related noises can be heard as far as a mile away. The prep plant gets away with this high level of noise pollution as it was built next to the Borough of Waynesburg, Pa in another township who's noise ordinances were made after the prep plant was built. The plant can do as it pleases and the DEP does nothing. The local Democratic politicians do nothing because "coal is king" here and they would never rock the boat against a coal company. So much for the "environmental party". Strict noise pollution laws must be enacted on a national, state, and county level.
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May 6, 2010 by J.Ivory
I missed two court dates for a noise ordinance and was 10 dollrs short to bail myself after turning myself in (bench warrant) . The judge sent me to jail. The DA was going to pay the 10 and the judge wouldn't allow it said I can go sit in jail. As I majorly oops on both occassions. For playing music too loud and missing my appearances I still felt like this was a bit much.No?
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May 19, 2010 by c
they should of let the lawyer pay your bail but if you would have thought of your neighbors an just turn down your music wouldnt of be a problem in the first place
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June 4, 2010 by Britnee
I think that any kind of music should be allowed to as loud as the person wants it to be during the day time. All you older folks have to think of what you did in the past, and just because you got old doesn't mean that we should have to give up our day time to be quiet.
June 5, 2010 by c
When people are not thinking of others living in the area is that right My neighbor play his bass for the time he gets off work until 9 or 10 at night loud engough i can hear it over our tv in the house does he have that right?
August 30, 2010 by Christine
I disagree with you Britnee,I had upstairs neighbors that did just that their Living room area happened to be above my bedroom and they had it so loud it would actually give me headaches.I had to deal with that till they moved out.Forget about when i was sick and or needed to take a nap.Now I have neighbors that constantly stomp and they are doing it on purpose not to mention its not only above my bedroom, but everywhere.I have neighbors now that I can hear a scuffle going on and my wall hangings rattle from it.I have been awoke at 4am from after hearing a bang and then they continued to stomp around finally I hit the ceiling with a pole I have and then they had the nerve to bang on their floor which is MY bedroom ceiling three times it didn't help.The landlord says he has spoken to them about it but so far after a week no changes.
July 25, 2010 by Chris
I think that in addition to jail, you should have had to lose the speakers. Your subwoofers have caused distress in my life. When I can't sit in my house and not have your bass coming through my walls...life is over. Doesn't seem serious to you but I can't go for a walk anywhere, anymore without hearing you idiots driving down the street.
You have no regard for anyone else. The same applies to your friends with the excessively loud exhausts. My theory is that the bigger the exhaust...or the louder the speakers...the smaller the •••••
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August 3, 2010 by chris espinoza
please...! thicken up your skin and let otheres live their lives its people like you that make living their lives impossible its suppose to be a free country and with all these absurd complaints about noise just adds to others stress your not the only one who lives in this world ....
February 19, 2011 by chase
No offense intended...but what state did this take place in....I live next to a neighbor from hell.......who plays loud music from sun up till sun down.....as for myself...Im so respectful....you never know Im home...I cant take this any more....thanks
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May 6, 2010 by annonymous
I live in unincorporated cook county called Central Stickney. I want to say within the last three years we have had many Hispanic people move into the neighborhood. They are very ignorant to the neighbors. They have a five piece band in their yards for birthday parts or blast their hispanic music you can hear from two blocks away. In our ordinance we are told when yo play music it should only be heard within the boundaries of your own premisies. You cant even enjoy the weekend. The Cook County Sheriff police are suppose to ticket loud music or disturbances of other neighbors they refuse to say anything to these people. My son came home from Iraq when he finished a tour and he had one frine in the yard no music and talking about when they were younger. The Cook County Sheriff police try to drag him out of the yard because they were laughing to loud at 9:00pm. Where is the law and the Justice here. I am an American and should not have to listen to there music for ten hours a day like they are having a block party every weekend. Can you help om this matter. What is happening you have Hispanic Cook County Police officers letting the Mexican people do what they want and not follow the laws of the Cook County ordinanaces.
Thank you
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May 27, 2010 by alan dearborn
i fully agree with you oh mighty annoyed one.however if you read my letter it kinda runs like yours ,only in the reverse.being white i have no rights the blacks and hispanics and muslims in my town are avoided by our local authorities.we have a local nuisance who yells screams obcenities and basically scares the hell out of kids and women who is totally ignored by our officers.are they scared of him?are they scared of a persons race ?NO.the very same people i'm talking about have no jobs and or money.they are ignored on principal by town officials due to a gross misuse of local power. no money ? no benefit to the community? why apprehend or try to control a penniless ordinance abusers. no money no revenue pure and simple . why flog a dead horse? lets go after home owners with property jobs and a source of revenue to the town coffers. that'll fatten our wallets and make honest people shake in their shoes! while agreeing with your situation, and congrats on having a son who's fought for our country.you sir have to look at the big picture. 1. you can't fight city hall-and win. 2. you can't expect equal treatment by our town rules and laws, when minorities are involved in the picture, and 3. if you have a job make money or have property versus the alternative ...your neighbors. you will always come out the under dog. respectfully alan.
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May 29, 2010 by Eva
so basically you're calling your your police force a bunch of idiots and racists and dare I say your comments are dangerously close, sir. I am a retired USAF Desert Shield/Desert Storm vet and am dealing with horrendous neighbors who set 6ft speakers on the sidewalk in front of their home, and blast music from early afternoon thru 5/6am the following day (as I write this it's happening now). I really believe that the police do not respond because of the type of people that have moved into the cul de sac. I do not think that minorities run the city or the police force, I just think that prestige and money does. If you live in an area with multi-thousand dollar homes I bet you won't have a noise ordinance problem, or trash on the street or any of the things hard working decent people fight so hard against. Anyway, I need help with these neighbors!!! Sometimes their "party invitees" have come across the street and sat in my yard during the party, as if its some free sitting area. Yes, its NYC.
June 4, 2010 by Britnee
I cant help you on this matter, but i can give you my opinion! Lay off those Mexican's, if they have a band for a birthday that shouldn't be a problem. They are celebrating, and believe or not, Mexican's are festive. If that makes sense. Write them a letter and explain your problem in a politely manner. See if that works, ask then to turn it down a bit or something. If not, blare some of your music. Can't someone listen to their music without having the cops meddle in there life.
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December 30, 2010 by Linda Gifford
Brittnee, dear, my hope is that you may someday be a mother, and that some individuals who don't want their sounds to be monitored move in next door and keep your baby awake for hours. And I hope that you suffer migraines and that these harmless youths play "music" until your head explodes. And if you're lucky enough to live to be really old, may every teenager in town feel the need to blast there music outside your window until you pray not to see another birthday.
I am assuming that you are a teenager, because nobody who was mature would be whining about the "right" to blast music so loudly that it's uncomfortable for others. A reasonable person sets the volume at a REASONABLE decible and can still enjoy the music. Why does it have to break glass to be enjoyable???
August 31, 2010 by esther
my neighbors are fifteen feet from my front door the same for my bedroom window i also have to put up with the loud music usinthe common fence we share as the bathroom exsposing themselves ect the music is so loud my whole house vibrates this has been going on for ten years the cops dont really do anything about it here either.you cant write a complaint because there could be worse problems i said somthing to one of the peopl who live ther a few years ago and she laughed and said so call the cops that tells me they are nit to worries about getting in trouble does it? just simple rude low life behavior dont respect your neighbor what can we do?
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December 22, 2010 by I. Posner
Our neighbor had a loud pool pump. We have tried to talk to our neighbor, we have called the police, we have tried the courts for neighbor mediation which our neighbors refused to respond to. Is their anyone out there that has a solution?
August 28, 2011 by C Falcon
It depends what kind of "Music" you are playing,( easy listening as opposed to Obscene rap full of profanity and discrimination against women .) The time of day and the volume. If you are inconsiderate of your neighbors and especially those blue collar folks who are havin a hard enough time keeping it together without ignorant selfish people cutting in on their sleep, then I say Stick you in the loudest cell block in the jail so you can see what it is like being surrounded by the people who are like you. Maybe then you learn wha tyo u do to your neighbors. And if not,leave you in there until your eyes are tearing up for lack of sleep, however long it takes to learn to be a decent citizen and not a punk.
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May 9, 2010 by Kathy
The bishop is wrong, he is creating an annoying Noise Pollution situation that his neighbors cannot toleate. They should not have to endure this hourly obsession of the bishop's and he should be charged like any other offender. I once lived in a Cathedral Parish that never rang the bells because they were way too loud, they were kept silent out of respect for their neighborhood. How time have changed.
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May 14, 2010 by Pattie
Noise is noise. How dare a church ring bells every hour on the hour, from 8 to 8, 5 days a week! That is a disturbance of the peace! Vehicles are a necessity so there's no comparison. Also how about ppl that do not believe in God. Should they be tortured with church bells? Freedom of speech and expression is not the same as noise. This is horrific!!!
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May 15, 2010 by Sandy
I think the "preacher" should "practice what he preaches". He's not exempt from the law, nor is he exempt from practicing common curtesy. He should be setting a good example instead of irritating the neighbors. If he can't control his urge to hear the bells, they should be removed. I moved near a railroad track and I expect to hear the train and its warning whistle, though I seldom really notice it any more because I got to used to it, except if I'm on the phone. Even so, the warning whistle is sounded to save lives so it's necessary.
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May 16, 2010 by flossboss
["church’s “interests of free speech and religious expression” outweighed the arguments of the neighbors"]
This is what happens when people who are elected (or appointed) to become judges let their personal opinions on religion decide their judgements.
How is it "religious expression" to have loud bells chime every hour all week long? Especially when it impedes on the rights of others!
I hope the city appealed this ridiculous judgement!
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May 17, 2010 by tenitta epps
this is in response to the May 7 reply to maryssa. what exactly is your question or statement. are you saying that our kids need less education or are you insinuating that I made that statement? there is no punctuation in your reply so it is kind of hard to determine exactly what you are talking about. I only pointed out that it would be hard to concentrate for the children. nothing about how much or how little education children need. it appears that you could do with a bit more education as well as a personality check. if you feel so strongly about something go ahead and spit it out but please do be so ugly with your words and so poorly prepared that you do not make any sense when you do respond to something such as this. thanks.
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May 27, 2010 by alan dearborn
WOW! you seem hostile. give the poor lady a break.i got her point even if slightly not politically correct or miss spelt. you are right about a little too much education however you seem to misjudge or look down your nose at someone with a few miss spellings. lets not discriminate against our fellow commentators. we are all commenting on here for a reason lets band together and support one and all equally.even if they disagree with us.i love a good debate but will walk away from a black eye. thats what this site is all about . respectfully , yours...alan
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September 21, 2010 by garry
" Blessed are the peace makers, for they shall have peace"
May 22, 2010 by Robert Cook
Does freedom of speach mean that persons with bullhorns making loud exchanges, trespassing on your property, in groups larger than 50 persons, unlawfull assemblies, and harasment should go unchallenged. Where are the authorities when persons are afraID TO ENTER OR LEAVE there own property??? ie Seiu union activites harrassing person at there own homes? Do noise laws cover this type of activities?
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May 27, 2010 by alan dearborn
dear mr cook. you,ve left out a major discovery i,ve made. if the authorities...being police officers ,have to control large crowds.biker gangs wearing colors ,black gangs with a history of violence or loud and obnoxious vehicles crowds and bars. they will be ignored every time. an officer is just a person. he's scare to hell of these types of situations. he'll turn his head and go get coffee and a donut before you ever get satisfaction .welcome to the world of the new minority. US.
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September 21, 2010 by garry
No trespassing signs first; notify the police why you are placing them there; have a good camera so you can take pictures of the ones who tear them down; then get a restraining order on those particular ones. The police are the ones who have to follow the law! Just like every one else has to. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. You live by the law, you die by the law. Nuff said.
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May 27, 2010 by alan dearborn
being a private citizen i recently was sited for criminal threatening and disorderly conduct.i was tazered-arrested -and dragged off to a night in the jailhouse.i was playing my music too loud i was told.i turned it down and continued my evening work in my shop.after going outside with a small maul to grab another stick of wood to split i made a few offhand remarks concerning neighbors of three years being inconsiderate and or uneighborly in they,re handling of the situation. no less than 7 officers stormed my property tasered me and took me in they dropped me so hard i received bodily injury . also the cuffs were so tight they cut my wrists.after receiving my summons i noticed the criminal threatening charge had been dropped.looking up disorderly conduct and excessive noise laws is a joke.each town making the rules or laws changes the ordinance to directly suit their own needs .i found absolutely nothing concerning my case or defense which i feel is outrageous.purposely mishandling a prisoner in cuffs after being electrocuted is not proper procedure.so i,d had a few beers.so i was playing my music. i was on my own property.when is the gestapo going to lighten up and allow people freedom of speech and the right to be treated fairly???do we now have no rights? do we just say yes sir or no sir to demands and rules made to suit the local authorities?when do we the people have a say in our treatment?isn't denial of medical attention in a taser situation a criminal act? isn't permanent personal injury a criminal act if it was intended?i would love feed back.
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June 22, 2010 by lory
OMG- I Hope that the people who are bothered by the bells take a same stance with leafblowers that are used regularly at their childrens school. not only are they a noise nuisance --they pollute little Johnny's lungs.
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November 27, 2010 by Howard
Leaf blowers serve a practical purpose, and once the job is done the leaf blower is turned off. Leaf blowers are not turned on every hour on the hour all day long. Comparing the hour on the hour penitrating bell ringing recording by the church to the occassional use of a leaf blower is a poor comparson indeed.
November 27, 2010 by Howard
To Chris. "Absurb complains about noise" you say ?? Explain what is absurb about it Chris. So the noise victum cannot sleep, or watch T. V. comfortably, certain cannot sit our side on his patio. He cannot have a pleasant conversation with a vistor because of the screeching, screaming, houling, squaling, thumbing noise that his neightbor turns to high volume next door. Please explain yourself Chis.
November 13, 2010 by lonnie
Alan, it is a free country, but remember - your neighbors are free too. Free to peace and quiet if that's what they want. You can play your music without making it so that everyone knows what you're listening to. You forcing them to listen to it breaches their freedom to enjoy their own property in peace.
Sorry about the other stuff, but you probably should consider others' rights, not just your own.
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November 27, 2010 by Howard
I agree that Alan needs to reflect on his actions. Alan does not have the right, in my opinion, to disturb the peace of another persons home, which is exactly what he is doing. What is so special about Alan that he bombards his neightbors with noise, yes is not noise, it certainly is not soothing music.
November 28, 2010 by Johnson
THANK YOU Lonnie!!! As I type this, my neighbor's music is annoying the heck out of me. I did the neighborly thing by kindly asking him to please lower the bass. Just like a typical passive-aggressive butt wipe, he smiled pleasantly and agreed, but low and behold he's blaring that jungle music again. I fail to understand why anyone who lives in an apartment, condominium or townhome thinks it's ok to play their music or surround sound at the highest levels. The lack of consideration for those around them is beyond me! And then this guy has the nerve to say HIS rights were violated. GET OVER IT!!!
May 31, 2010 by Hannahh Kelly
You can’t do much about the church, so might as well get some QuietRock soundproofing done in your homes! That way you’ll not hear the noise, no matter where it comes from!
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May 31, 2010 by ACAgal
Church bells do not damage hearing, even if they are used an unexpected moments. Disruption of the peace, is still disruption and to deliberately disrupt is rude.
Consider pyrotechnics, after bedtime on work/school nights which disrupt sleep. When the environment is quiet, and the body at rest if a loud noise occurs, hearing damage is more likely, than when the ears are receiving sounds. Amusement parks that use loud noises to make money have no civil considerations for those who are their neighbors, because noise is not necessary with pyrotechnics. An expansion chamber, within the explosive is necessary to create the potentially defining bang. 20 minutes of bang, 200 nights/year......wonder what that does to the ears, temper, and general health of those who are neighbors to such commercial events.
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